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Peter Kwasniewski's avatar

Dear Lilly,

Thank you for writing this article.

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with my work but I frequently mention the fact that a big renewal in my faith took place in high school through the couple of years I spent in the charismatic movement. It’s quite possible—I’m very willing to admit it—that the Lord knew I need this kind of restart in my spiritual life (after a rather perfunctory suburban Catholicism in my earlier life) in order to get to a deeper level, and it was after this that I discovered Catholic tradition in all its depth—theological, liturgical, musical.

I have subsequently met others who went down the same path, that is, conventional to charismatic to traditional. Some say they have never left the charismatic behind: thus Clement Harrold talks of “Tradismatic Trentecostalism” in an interesting piece at First Things:

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2022/03/tradismatic-trentecostalism

Others, like myself, believe that what we discoverered there, we rediscovered at a deeper level in the resources of tradition such as the TLM, lectio divina and meditating with the rosary. I go into this in a lecture I gave at Steubenville in 2020 called “Why Charismatic Catholics Should Love the Traditional Latin Mass”:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2020/10/why-charismatic-catholics-should-love.html

This part of your article I can agree with 100%: if Catholics do not develop a personal relationship with the Lord, no amount of beautiful liturgy and methodical devotions will be able to substitute for it. This is one reason I think it’s so important for traditionalist families to carve out time for individual prayer, for family prayer, for personal retreats, visits to monasteries, things of that sort that can open up the soul to the action of the Lord in a way different from “going through the motions” of corporate worship (as necessary and good as those are).

One last thing, I hope you won’t mind if I suggest a correction. You write: “I know that the Latin Mass was stable for 400 years and that many are drawn to its beautiful and holy elements.” Actually, the Latin Mass was stable in its core for about 1,500 years, and the whole thing was quite complete centuries before St. Pius V codified it in 1570. I go into this history and its significance in my book The Once and Future Roman Rite:

https://www.amazon.com/Once-Future-Roman-Rite-Traditional/dp/1505126622/

God bless you!

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Nathaniel Richards's avatar

I am definitely what people would call a “Traditionalist” and have used the moniker myself because it usually saves time and makes a quick distinction (that needs to be made). I also am a convert to the Faith, having spent most of my life in a form of non-Trinitarian Pentecostalism. While I haven’t seen anything as dramatic/demonstrative in the Catholic Church personally as I saw in my nascent Pentecostalism, I still am naturally wary.

The only experience I have with charismatic Catholicism in person is a retreat that is held often in my geographical diocese. “Strengthening and Healing,” they call it. Generally basic and good stuff in the talks given, but it got a little strange with the priest laying hands on foreheads and people collapsing to the ground. Especially seeing fully-habited sisters collapsing. No speaking in tongues or ecstatic prophesying, but the priest was all about healing parental wounds and when he laid his hands on me, he would weirdly whisper “Mama…dada, etc.” Needless to say, I did not collapse.

I think what people are after/seeking is a conversion experience; or, having the Truths of the Faith finally click to make that personal relationship with Jesus truly apparent. Which is good to have. As for me, I think I value the “traditional” aspects of prayer and silence probably because I grew up with a lot of noise. God was often associated with a feeling, warm fuzzies, and things being always demonstrable (healing, tongues, impromptu exorcisms, dynamic worship music, etc.) Sometimes we don’t “feel” anything—and that’s okay. I think of St. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who outwardly radiated God’s love to everyone, but her interior life was dry and she really didn’t feel God for most of her adult life/ministry. She still saw visions in the beginning of her life, but in the nitty gritty of her work later in life, there was little consolation.

I guess my worry is that the charismatic aspects do much to console in the moment, but may not prepare its adherents for the desolation that happens in the Christian life. What happens when things go wrong and I don’t feel God? How do I carry that cross? I think traditional aspects of the Faith, especially with the old mystics have some good answers/a way forward when the soul has to deal with the hard stuff.

Alas, I ramble. But I am willing to be your friend! Haha.

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